Can someone steal money with your routing and account number

Q: I watched the video of you and the expert panelists at a consumer scams forum in Lakewood in March. I have a question regarding one of the points.

How can someone who is in possession of your bank routing number and account number take money out of your checking account without a signed check? I'm talking about a scenario where there is no debit card attached to the account. If someone is able to take money without a signed check, why even have checks?

My bank was unable to give me a good answer so I'm hoping you can. I've talked to numerous others who are equally confused so it may be a point to address in your column as well.

E.R., Willowick

A: If I had your routing number and account number (I may or may not need your name), then I could use that information to pay for something online using an electronic check.

You raise an excellent question I was planning to write about soon. If you write someone a personal check, you've given that person your name, address, maybe your phone number, and -- most importantly -- your routing number and account number.

With that, an individual can potentially do a lot of damage to your checking account. I've been on my high horse lately about the dangers of writing a check from your primary checking account to an individual, unless it's someone like a trusted relative or dear friend.

First, many companies/ merchants/ entities accept electronic checks online to pay for something. In most cases, you only have to enter the account holder's name, routing number and account number. If the company asks for the address, you've got that too if you've got someone's personal check.

I'm not talking about sleazy outlets that will allow this: For starters, Amazon allows electronic debits from a checking account using a routing number and account number. So does my son's university, Ohio State, when I pay his tuition. So do utilities and cellphone providers. So do lots of other companies.

Clearly, if it's an online transaction, there's no signed check. There's no signature at all.

There isn't as much security surrounding this issue as there should be. Often, it's a case where banks act first -- allow money to be debited -- and then ask questions or respond to questions later.

In fact, when I talked about this a couple of weeks ago at an event in Shaker Heights, a gentleman told the crowd that his checking account was hit recently for a $1,000 payment to Dominion Energy for someone's natural gas bill. Clearly, it could be tracked to an address, and therefore, a person. How did it happen? The man got his money refunded to his account but no good explanation.

I asked you to ask your bank what it can do to prevent your checking account from being debited by someone who has the information on the front of a paper check you've  given them. Here's what you said:

"My bank is Chase and they essentially confirmed your point that the bank just lets the fraud happen and then pays you back the money. Seems like a strange business model. She did say that phony ACH withdrawals are very low on the list of common fraudulent transactions, but there is no way to prevent fraud from happening."

Chase spokeswoman Christine Holevas said my points are correct.

"It's unfortunate that Eileen seems to think that we somehow know when someone's account has been compromised and used fraudulently via electronic transaction. We would love to have that power," Holevas said.

"Technology brings great convenience and simplicity, but we still have the same challenges - customer education, fraudsters, etc.," she said. "Our best defense against fraudsters are customers that monitor their accounts, call us when something doesn't look/feel right, don't give out personal information, and take steps to learn how to protect themselves through columns like yours and the information they can find on their bank's website." She pointed Chase customers to

Notice that, besides avoiding giving out personal information, her advice is how to deal with problems after they've occurred.

If this issue concerns anyone else reading this, I urge you to do two things:

1. Ask your bank how you can prevent someone who has the information on the front of a personal check from using it to pay for something online, assuming the outlet accepts electronic checks. Let me know what they say.

2. Don't take the chance. Open a second checking account that you use to write checks to individuals. Why would you want to expose your primary checking account to potential fraud? If your secondary checking account is compromised, at least it doesn't contain a lot of money, and it isn't the one where you get your direct deposits, where you have electronic withdrawals for insurance or your mortgage or car payment or whatever, where you have most of your day-to-day money. (This secondary checking account is a good one to link to your debit card too, if you have one.)

This issue is one of the next big ones on the horizon. It doesn't involve hacking. It involves using your own information against you. If your hit by electronic check fraud, yes, you can usually get your money refunded in a few days or weeks after the bank has investigated. What if the money that was stolen from your account was the money you needed for groceries or your mortgage or rent?

I've had three checking accounts for nearly 20 years. On those occasions when I write a personal check, I'm selective about which account I use when the check is going to an individual. Think I'm paranoid? One bank executive friend of mine said the only place he writes personal checks to is to church. He's that concerned about what he knows is possible.

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